GA indictment poses distinctive perils for Trump, identifying bodies in Maui: 5 Things podcast

On today's episode of the 5 Things podcast: Georgia indictment poses distinctive perils for Trump

USA TODAY Washington Bureau Chief Susan Page looks at some of the unique dangers for Trump in the Georgia indictment. Plus, Hunter Biden's criminal lawyer asks to quit the case, USA TODAY National Correspondent Trevor Hughes talks about the difficult process of identifying bodies in the Hawaii fires, Michael Oher alleges that the 'Blind Side' family deceived him into a conservatorship for financial gain, and Tesla launches a cheaper range of cars, but with a catch.

Podcasts: True crime, in-depth interviews and more USA TODAY podcasts right here

Hit play on the player above to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript below. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.

Taylor Wilson:

Good morning. I'm Taylor Wilson and this is 5 Things you need to know Wednesday, the 16th of August 2023. Today, a closer look at some of the unique challenges for Trump and his Georgia indictment. Plus, Hunter Biden's lawyer asked to quit his case, and we return to Hawaii where teams are working to identify bodies after the Maui fires.

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Donald Trump's latest indictment, this time in Georgia, presents some unique challenges for the former president. I spoke with USA TODAY Washington Bureau Chief Susan Page to learn more. Susan, thanks for making the time.

Susan Page:

Hey, Taylor, it's always great to be with you.

Taylor Wilson:

So this is the fourth time Trump has faced criminal charges since leaving the White House. But, Susan, you write that there are several ways that this trial will not be like the others. For starters, there's actually tape of a prominent phone call in this case. What's on that call, Susan?

Susan Page:

Well, this is the call that Trump had on January 2nd, 2021 with the Georgia Secretary of State, a Republican office holder, in which he basically urged him, coaxed him, threatened him, asking him to find the 11,000 votes he needed to carry Georgia. And Brad Raffensperger declined to do that and said that the vote had been counted accurately, had been recounted and confirmed, and that he wasn't going to do it. It didn't deter Trump. And so in this case, this is a telephone call that seemed quite understandable and maybe very difficult for the former president to explain away.

Taylor Wilson:

And this trial will be on television. Why might that prove to be significant?

Susan Page:

I don't know if you're old enough to remember the OJ Simpson trial, but I am. It transfixed the nation. Everybody was watching it. 57% of Americans were watching the verdict being read in the OJ Simpson trial. And can you imagine the ratings that Donald Trump vs. the State of Georgia could get on TV? It's really a way for Americans to take a look on their own about the arguments being made for and against the former president and the other 18 people who have been indicted with him and make their own decisions about who they believe.

Taylor Wilson:

Susan, we know this idea of pardons has come up in other indictments for Trump. What are the complications around being pardoned in Georgia?

Susan Page:

Well, for one thing, even if Donald Trump manages to win another election, a president can't pardon someone of a state crime. Now, of course, Georgia is a Republican-leaning state. It has a Republican governor at the moment and in the recent past, but the governor can't pardon someone in Georgia either. The constitution in the state establishes an independent board that decides on pardons. And just one other thing about that board, it doesn't do preemptive pardons, so it can't give you a get out of jail free card before you've been convicted. And after you're convicted, the guidelines say you have to complete your term before you can even ask for a pardon. So this looms as something that could be troublesome for Donald Trump.

Taylor Wilson:

What do we know about Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis as we see a local prosecutor take on a former president?

Susan Page:

I mean talk about David and Goliath. It's not like she's backed up by the Department of Justice the way the federal special counsel is. She has been elected, she's in her first term as the DA of Fulton County. But, man, she is somebody with guts. She has outlined a really sweeping indictment, one 98 pages long with 41 counts, and she uses the racketeering statute, the one that was designed really to take down the mob, to argue that Trump was leading a criminal enterprise. And I'll tell you one thing interesting about Fani Willis. She used that racketeering statute before against a group of public school teachers in a test scandal case. She won and she sent some of those teachers to jail.

Taylor Wilson:

Susan, stepping back to look at the possible political ramifications here, Trump's base has stuck by him in past indictments. What does this particular one mean for him politically?

Susan Page:

Well, in the short term, these indictments, they've not just stuck with him, it's strengthened his position, it's strengthened his fundraising. It's solidified his standing in the polls. It's taken all the oxygen out of the room for his Republican rivals for the party's nomination. So in the short term, I think there's no reason to think this indictment will do anything but that. But in the long term, that could be a different story when you go to an electorate that includes a lot of Independent voters who may be watching these legal actions with some concern.

Taylor Wilson:

All right, Susan Page, it should be a fascinating next few weeks and months. Thanks for your insight as always.

Susan Page:

Thank you.

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Taylor Wilson:

Hunter Biden's top criminal attorney has asked a federal judge in Delaware to allow him to withdraw as Biden's counsel. He made the request saying he could become a witness in the case after the collapse of a plea agreement he had negotiated with prosecutors. The attorney, Christopher Clark, filed the motion yesterday citing questions about Biden's now defunct plea agreement on tax charges and a diversion agreement on a gun possession offense.

Biden will continue to be represented by other attorneys. Earlier this summer, he agreed to plead guilty to two misdemeanor charges of tax evasion in exchange for prosecutors recommending that he receive probation instead of jail time. The deal also called for him to participate in a pretrial program for a gun possession offense. After the judge refused to accept the plea agreement, Hunter Biden pleaded not guilty to failing to pay more than $100,000 in taxes in 2017 and 2018. He faces a separate charge for possessing a firearm in 2018 as a drug user.

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The death toll has risen to 106 in this month's Maui fires and nearly 3000 homes and other structures have been destroyed in the historic town of Lahaina. Search teams continue to work through the wreckage with their latest task finding and identifying the dead. I spoke with USA TODAY National Correspondent Trevor Hughes to learn more. Thanks for making the time, Trevor.

Trevor Hughes:

Absolutely.

Taylor Wilson:

So the death toll continues to rise from the Maui fires as officials work to identify the dead. What does this difficult process entail?

Trevor Hughes:

Well, you're talking about a wildfire being driven by wind. And so we're not talking about a campfire, we're not talking about a bonfire that people are perhaps familiar with. We're talking about a fire that might've hit 1000 degrees, 2000 degrees, a fire that's hot enough to melt the engine of a car. That's how hot these fires are. The sad reality is that the human body cannot withstand that kind of heat. And so tragically people are reduced literally to ashes. And so it's a very painstaking and slow process to try and identify where bodies are and then who those people were.

Taylor Wilson:

Trevor, are these teams moving fragments to another site or how exactly does the identification process work?

Trevor Hughes:

We were talking to experts about this and they were making the point that this is very complicated and difficult work. And so in many cases what happens is, first, cadaver sniffing dogs are used to search the area to see if there's any trace of humans. And then they bring in forensic anthropologists who are able to identify by sight all of the bones of the human body. And there are 206 bones in the human body. These forensic anthropologists, in some cases are literally sifting through ashes trying to separate charred bone from pieces of drywall. And of course this is a very solemn and significant task and people take it very seriously. But, yes, ultimately what happens is that as best as they can, these remains that are recovered are removed from the site where someone passed away and they are brought to a central location and ultimately turned back over to their families and their loved ones.

Taylor Wilson:

Trevor, what dangers are still present in the search areas for both people and even some of these rescue dogs working on site?

Trevor Hughes:

When you have these fires that come through residential areas, you've got all this material inside. Houses, rugs, carpets, sofas, those are all made of all kinds of different chemicals. And then you've also got basic household cleaners or gasoline, bleach, pesticides, all of that gets burned and kicked up into the air and then settles back down as dust. So you have these rescue workers who are working under these very tough conditions trying to protect themselves from what is frankly toxic waste. And then in what I find a very heartbreaking element of it, the canine search dogs that are being used to look for bodies, to look for cadavers, in some cases they end up being exposed to these very toxic chemicals day after day, hour after hour.

Taylor Wilson:

Trevor, we've seen searches through destruction before, be it after 9/11 or, say, the Surfside collapsed more recently in Florida where search and rescue teams go through immense trauma themselves working through this debris, as you've mentioned. What is the toll on workers' mental health on site?

Trevor Hughes:

It's horrifying to sort of think about this idea that you are quartering in very, very small increments someone's home where someone lived and someone died. These workers are taking in a lot of trauma to do this day after day because it's not just physically exhausting, but it's emotionally exhausting because you know that family members are depending on you to say, where is my loved one? Where's my mother? Where's my father? Can you help me? And I know these rescue workers because I've talked to them over the years, they are so focused on trying to help those families. It takes a real toll.

Taylor Wilson:

All right, Trevor Hughes, thanks for your time and reporting here. Really appreciate it.

Trevor Hughes:

Absolutely.

Taylor Wilson:

Meanwhile, the Associated Press reports that videos show downed power lines might be to blame as a possible cause of the fires, though officials are still investigating. And President Joe Biden said he and First Lady Jill Biden will travel to the state in the coming days.

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Retired NFL Offensive lineman Michael Oher's story was portrayed in the 2009 movie The Blind Side, based on a book of the same name by Michael Lewis. The Hollywood version of the story is that Sean and Leigh Anne Tuohy made Oher, then in the foster system, a member of their family, which included two children. Oher then went on to become a star football player, first in college at Ole Miss, then in the NFL where he helped the Ravens win the Super Bowl in 2013.

But in a 14-page petition filed yesterday in Tennessee court, Oher alleges that the couple never legally adopted him and instead deceived him into making them his conservators, giving the couple legal authority to make business dealings in his name. The petition also alleges that the Tuohies secured a royalties deal for themselves and their children for The Blind Side while Oher received nothing. The film made more than $300 million at the box office, and Sandra Bullock won the Oscar for best actress. Through their lawyers, the Tuohy family responded yesterday calling the move a shakedown.

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Tesla's new Standard Range versions of its popular Model X and Model S vehicles are significantly cheaper than the regular versions of those cars, about $10,000 so. But there's a major caveat, they can't travel as far on one charge. The Model X's Standard vehicle has an estimated range of 269 miles, 79 miles less than its more expensive version. And the Model S range is reduced by about 85 miles. Both also have a slightly slower acceleration speed. You can read more at usatoday.com/cars.

And thanks for listening to 5 Things. If you like the show, please subscribe and leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And if you have any comments, you can reach us at [email protected]. I'm back tomorrow with more of 5 Things from USA TODAY.