On a special episode (first released on April 24, 2024) of The Excerpt podcast: If a person is convicted of a crime, they may be sentenced to prison. Upon release, technically, they're free again. The catch is that now they have a criminal record that will likely follow them everywhere they go. So, when does the sentence end? For most people, the answer is never. 70 million Americans have some sort of criminal record. Twelve states have recently passed laws allowing low-level convictions to be expunged from records if certain requirements are met. In recognition of Second Chance Month, we ask: should everyone get a chance at a clean slate? Sheena Meade, CEO of the Clean Slate Initiative, an organization working to get all 50 states to offer automatic record clearance, joins The Excerpt to discuss the ramifications of living with a criminal record.

Hit play on the player below to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript beneath it. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.

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Hello, and welcome to The Excerpt. I'm Dana Taylor. Today is Wednesday, April 24th, 2024, and this is a special episode of The Excerpt. If a person is convicted of a crime, they may be sentenced to prison. Upon release, technically, they're free again. The catch is that now they have a criminal record that will likely follow them everywhere they go. So, when does the sentence end? For most people, the answer is never. 70 million Americans have some sort of criminal record. 12 states have recently passed laws allowing low-level convictions to be expunged from records if certain requirements are met. In recognition of Second Chance Month we ask, should everyone get a chance at a clean slate? Our guest today is Sheena Meade, the CEO of the Clean Slate Initiative, an organization working to get all 50 states to offer automatic record clearance. Thanks for joining us, Sheena.

Thank you for having me, Dana.

So, why is this such a big deal? In what ways does someone's criminal record create obstacles for them?

Well, one, it's such a big deal because one in three Americans have an arrest or conviction on their record, and that's a lot of people. That's a lot of people from our communities, a lot of people in our faith community, our neighbors, our loved ones, and we know that if a person have an arrest or a conviction, it's harder to reintegrate back into society because over 94% of employers require background checks. You have over 72% of universities and colleges that also screen out applicants through background checks. Also, there are barriers with landlords. S,o usually when people are coming back home from prison or someone who has been arrested or have a conviction, you usually hear folks say, "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps. People should get back to work, go find housing, get an education", but they're met with all these barriers.

In most states, there is laws that says once you have done your time, you have remained crime-free for a certain period of time, you are eligible to get your record cleared, expunged, but it's so bureaucratic and is very cumbersome, and you have a lot of paperwork in some states. Sometimes you have to find an attorney and if your crime is being poor, you'll never be able to get your record cleared because you can't afford that. So, right now what the Clean Slate Initiative is, our mission is to automate record clearance. So, some of the hurdles that we see that people face in certain states, and I'll give you an example, like Louisiana, a person could be charged up to $500 per offense to try to get their offense off their record. We have states like in Missouri, where you could be eligible to get your record cleared. You could have remained crime-free for a certain period of time. You're eligible deemed by the state, but yet a judge may still hold discretion.

I would tell you Dana, a lot of people don't know once they had an offense and they paid their debt to society, they might not even know that their records going to hold them back from employment, housing, or even potentially getting a higher education. For my case in 2004, I found myself getting arrested in front of my children off a warrant for passing a worthless check. Now, Dana, that check was $87.26 cents that I wrote to the grocery store to get groceries for my family, for my children.

I thought that once I came out of jail and I paid the check off and I paid all the fees associated with it, that that was it. I could move on from that traumatic day that I got arrested in front of my children but yet, I start realizing that my record was a barrier years later as I'm applying for jobs. When I tried to go to work on my bachelor's degree at a university and I was met with the question, have you ever been arrested or convicted? Once I checked that box, I had a whole drop down of menu options with red letters in bold saying that I had to go pick up all this paperwork just to show the school that I was worthy of being able to enroll.

So, approximately how long after your conviction did it take for you to get your record cleared?

Dana, that is such a great question because it is 2024. It is 20 years from the time that I got arrested. Actually, next month will make it 20 years, and I still do not have a clean slate. About four years ago, my husband and my family, we was trying to look for a rental home, and this is after many accolades for the work that I have led that my husband has done also in the criminal justice space. He even got his own day in the county of Orange County, Florida but yet, when we went to go look for a rental property, we were getting denied because of technology. The application was shooting it back out because there was a blemish record there. So, I still don't have a clean slate, but I'm excited to say that the work that the Clean Slate Initiative that we're trying to get all 50 states on a pathway that will allow automatic record clearing for folks like myself and the millions of the other folks who have remained crime free, who wants to get back to work, who want to just contribute to their communities.

So, tell us about the states that do have an automatic record clearance program. Who's eligible, who isn't? What kind of clearance timeline are we talking about?

When you talk about timelines and who's eligible, it varies from state to state. I'll let you know, the first state that passed Clean Slate was Pennsylvania. To this date, millions of people's records have been able to have been cleared varying from low-level misdemeanors, even low-level felonies where people... We know that folks who have dealt with drug addictions, which is definitely a health issue, sometimes has found themselves to gather offenses during a time of addiction. We have a large recovery community who's ready to go to work, who wants to contribute back to society, and sometimes they're met with those barriers because of their record, but we've been able to see states like Pennsylvania, Utah, Oklahoma, Michigan removing some of those hurdles and obstacles because now, they're able to have their record cleared.

So, what's going on with the other states? Are you close in some? You mentioned Orange County, Florida. That's my county. I didn't realize we were in the same county. Have some states refused?

So, 12 states have passed Clean Slate across the country, which is really exciting. We say, "Have some states refused?" No. We have states reaching out every day saying, "How do we bring Clean Slate to our state? How do we pass this policy?" So, we don't see states where folks are refusing. There's a lot of bipartisan support across the aisle for this issue. It's a very commonsense policy. This policy is not a red or blue or purple policy, it's the people's policy. It's people over politics.

Again, when you have one in three Americans who have some type of arrest or conviction, that means it hits close to home, even to our elected officials. They know people that are impacted. Their constituents are impacted as well. Of course, they're talking to the business community who lets them know we need to tap into a labor force and we need to change some of these laws and also our maybe hiring practices, but we haven't had any state say they refuse. We have had states that wanted to do Clean Slate policies but don't have the updated data infrastructure, and that's why we're working with our partners and legislators in those states that make sure that if Clean Slate laws come to their state, that they're able to implement it well with the automation.

Then what about a federal option? Do you see that as necessary?

Right now, there is no mechanism on a federal level to get your record clear outside of a pardon due to president, and so we are working on the Clean Slate Act that has bipartisan support to create a mechanism to petition to get your record clear and also to automate that process.

Then what's your biggest concern when it comes to getting Congress to pass a Clean Slate law?

When I walk the halls of Congress, people are very receptive. Legislators, their staff members, I have yet walked into an office where someone could not relate to my story or have a story that they would like to share, where there was a colleague, their buddy from college, a loved one, a daughter. I've even had folks who are members of Congress who are directly impacted themselves. They remember that they may have been arrested when they were younger, but they also, some of them may realize they had the privilege of being able to hire an attorney to get out of the case or whatsoever. My concern right now is that there are a lot of things happening right now. It's an election year. There's a lot of distractions happening in Congress, and I hope that our members will focus on the people and pass laws like the Clean Slate Act, but outside of that, it's really been gaining steam with bipartisan support.

What do your opponents say about the Clean Slate movement?

Well, Dana, I ask you first, who's my opponent?

So, you haven't come up against any hurdles in terms of getting all of the necessary people on board. It's really just a question of having the infrastructure to implement the program. Is that really it?

I think it's that and misconceptions of the policy. So, when I say no opponents, meaning there's no organized opposition against Clean Slate policies, not anyone saying that this is not good for our people. This is not good for our economy. Once we educate people around how this is good for our economy, how much money that we're losing by having folks locked out from the workforce.

You've described this as a people issue. What do you think most people don't get about the criminal justice system when it comes to minor criminal offenses like the one you said you committed?

I don't believe that the general public really understands how fractured our legal system is and how easy it is for people to get an arrest or conviction. That is what I believe, because some folks, when you ask the kind of person about people getting a record cleared, they may go to the most harshest offenses that they could think about. They're not thinking about the young parent or single mother like myself at that time, who was just trying to make ends meet who might've bounced a check. They're not thinking about somebody who might have made a mistake during their worst time in an addiction phase.

They're not thinking about the person who might've drove on a suspended license because they were still trying to get to work, or that got an offense for driving on suspended license. Folks are not thinking about those things. People don't really understand usually how our legal system work until you're in it, or maybe if you're a policy person or an attorney. Again, like myself, I'm someone who is directly impacted, and I work in this space for some years now, and I didn't even realize the different amounts of hurdles and barriers that people face because of a record.

Thank you so much for being on The Excerpt, Sheena.

Thank you, Dana.

Thanks to our senior producers, Shannon Rae Green and Bradley Glanzrock for their production assistance. Our executive producer is Laura Beatty. Let us know what you think of this episode by sending a note to [email protected]. Thanks for listening. I'm Dana Taylor. Taylor Wilson will be back tomorrow morning with another episode of The Excerpt.