On today's episode of the 5 Things podcast: Is Biden's plan to stem immigration working?

Illegal immigration continues to be front and center for presidential hopefuls as the 2024 election stage heats up. GOP governors have been very public about their efforts to transfer undocumented migrants from border states like Texas and Arizona to cities like New York and Los Angeles. New York City has seen such an influx of migrants, it's running out of places to house them. Meanwhile, at the border, scorching heat and razor wire barriers haven't stemmed the tide of undocumented migrants trying to cross into the U.S. Is Biden's plan to stem immigration seeing any success? To find out more, I spoke with Border and immigration reporter Lauren Villagran who joined us from The El Paso Times. 

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Hit play on the player above to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript below. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.

Dana Taylor:

Good morning and welcome to 5 Things. I'm Dana Taylor. Today is Sunday, August 13th, 2023. Illegal immigration has been a hot topic for presidential hopefuls as we lean into the 2024 election. GOP governors have been very public about their efforts to transfer undocumented migrants from the border states like Texas and Arizona to northern cities like New York and Los Angeles. Texas Republican Governor Greg Abbott has gone so far as to send buses full of immigrants up to the Naval Observatory in Washington, where Vice President Kamala Harris lives. Meanwhile, some of the most fraught policies related to migration are now in court. To learn more about the most pressing political aspects of this issue, we sat down with Border and Immigration Reporter Lauren Villagran, who joins us from the Gannett Network property, the El Paso Times. Lauren, thank you so much for joining us.

Lauren Villagran:

Thank you for having me, Dana.

Dana Taylor:

Let's start with Eagle Pass, the border crossing that's been the subject of so much recent controversy. Just last week, two bodies were found at that barrier. First, why is there so much controversy about this crossing, and why is it so dangerous?

Lauren Villagran:

Well, the controversy really began when Texas Governor Greg Abbott instructed his authorities to place a buoy barrier in the Rio Grande. Now, the border between the U.S. and Mexico is actually the middle of that river, and where the buoys lay is a matter of controversy, international controversy, because Mexico objects to it. The buoy barrier, which is about the length of three football fields, is dangerous. It spins if people try to climb over it. I understand that there is also a barrier beneath the water that you can't see, so you cannot pass beneath it, and migrants already face a number of dangers at that crossing point if they choose to cross between ports of entry. The river is wide in that area, and Gov. Abbott's authorities have also laid concertina wire, so reams and reams of this razor wire right at the Northern Bank. So, it's made it very dangerous for migrants to attempt to cross there, and yet they continue to do so.

Dana Taylor:

The Justice Department has sued. What do we know about that lawsuit?

Lauren Villagran:

We haven't seen movement yet on this lawsuit, but we know that Gov. Greg Abbott does intend to fight it. His response on the social media network formerly known as Twitter, was essentially, "Bring it on. We'll see you in court, Mr. President." So, I think we're going to be watching that very closely. Mexico has objected to the barrier, which again is right on the borderline.

Dana Taylor:

So, what was Mexico's argument, them complaining about the barriers at this crossing?

Lauren Villagran:

Right, so there's actually an international organization. It's a binational organization called the International Boundary and Water Commission. They're typically not in the limelight. They're the folks who govern the river, who make sure that the water continues to flow, that the boundary is not interfered with. This is all under a matter of international treaty. And they're also the body that often resolves complaints by either party. So, Mexico did in June register a complaint with the International Boundary and Water Commission, and my understanding is that also with the State Department, the U.S. State Department, basically saying that this barrier violates the treaty.

Anything that is placed in the river could theoretically shift the river channel and therefore the U.S.-Mexico boundary. So, that's the grounds on which Mexico is making its complaint.

Dana Taylor:

Title 42, which was a COVID era, restriction expired in May and was replaced by a new asylum policy. What's in that asylum policy, and has it in fact been effective at stemming illegal immigration?

Lauren Villagran:

Well, Dana, there's a number of things that came into play at the end of Title 42. I think there were many people in this country who believed that the end of Title 42 would bring a new wave of migrants north to the border. In fact, we've seen something different happen. The number of migrants apprehended at the border dropped dramatically in the wake of Title 42. That was in part because of the policy that you are describing. One of the policies that the Biden administration instituted was what's known among immigrant advocates as a third country ban. Essentially, migrants heading north must first seek refuge in another country before they seek asylum in the United States. And for people living in country south of Mexico, that would mean requesting asylum in Mexico.

It's not easy for people from other countries to seek asylum in countries that other people are also fleeing. We know that there are also Mexicans who are attempting to cross the U.S. border in some cases seeking asylum. There were other policies that came into play after the end of Title 42. Those migrants who seek an appointment to apply for entry at the U.S. border are being removed in some cases that they are found to not have a claim. They're being removed with a five-year ban. So there were a number of policies that were rolled out at the end of Title 42 that have dramatically shifted migration patterns in the region.

Dana Taylor:

There is a vocal group of opponents to this policy. What is their argument?

Lauren Villagran:

So, the argument among immigrant advocates, for example, is that this is a reprise of a Trump administration policy that forced asylum seekers to first seek refuge in a "third country," a place before they reached the U.S. southern border. Immigrant advocates will say that migrants from other countries are not safe in many of the countries that are on their path as they try to reach the U.S. border, whether that's countries in Central America or Mexico.

Dana Taylor:

Well, the Biden administration has also put in place an online system of applications that anyone could submit on their phone. What impact has that had on migration?

Lauren Villagran:

Honestly, although that application - which is called CBP One, it's available on computer and on a cell phone - that application has had its problems in terms of accessibility and usability, but it appears to have made a significant difference in the number of migrants crossing unlawfully between ports of entry. What that application does is provide for an appointment system. So if you're a family from Venezuela or from Guatemala, you can actually make an appointment once you're in Mexico to present at a formal port of entry. Now, presenting at that port of entry does not guarantee any immigration relief in the United States, but it does afford an opportunity to make that request, to make a claim for asylum or a claim for another type of relief.

If a family or a migrant group is found to not have a claim, that individual or that family can be returned to their country of origin, or in some cases to Mexico, under a process known as expedited removal. And that process does come with a potential consequence, including a ban on returning to the United States. I hate to describe it this way, but it is a bit of a carrot and a stick. There are consequences associated with making a false claim. At the same time, it has provided for what the Biden administration calls a new lawful pathway to the United States.

Dana Taylor:

Lauren, let's talk about the record heat that's been bearing down in that part of the country. July saw 31 consecutive days of temperatures at 110 degrees or higher in Phoenix. Texas also had record heat. What's been the impact on migrants crossing unlawfully?

Lauren Villagran:

Oh, Dana, it's just been tragic. I can tell you that in El Paso, we had a 44-day streak of triple digit temperatures. We saw temperatures hit 112 degrees in El Paso this week. The impact has been a huge increase in migrant deaths. Fiscal year to date the, El Paso sector, which includes West Texas and all of New Mexico, has seen 119 migrants die, many of them from heat exposure in the last two months in an area of New Mexico that's a bedroom community of El Paso, Texas. It's just been devastating.

Dana Taylor:

Let's talk about the busing of undocumented immigrants from border cities to places like New York, California, Washington. Dozens of migrants were even flown to Martha's Vineyard. In the past year or so, tens of thousands of people have been relocated. New York City is now so packed with newcomers. The city has run out of places to house them, and is now building tent shelters. What happens to the migrants once they end up in a place like New York City?

Lauren Villagran:

Well, I think that they find themselves in a situation that they did not expect. I followed a Venezuelan family on their journey to New York from El Paso, Texas last year, and I've kept up with them. They've struggled, and this is a family that has done "everything the right way." They have made an asylum claim. They have filed paperwork with U.S. citizenship and Immigration Services. They remain sheltered at one of the hotels in Midtown Manhattan where the city had essentially established a temporary migrant shelter. They were supposed to be there a few months. They've been there more than six months now, and part of the reason, Dana, is that, as we all know, New York is incredibly expensive.

Dana Taylor:

Migration has really slowed since the asylum policy was put in place, but obviously, it will never go to zero. What's the humane solution to how to accommodate and absorb these people while their asylum cases play out?

Lauren Villagran:

Whether it's asylum or another type of relief that migrants are seeking, what it really boils down to is that it's the executive branch that has been making immigration policy exclusively for more than 20 years. We have not seen Congress act on new immigration laws or a major overhaul of visas or other immigration programs since 1996, and before that 1986. So, it really falls on the shoulders of the nation's congressmen and women to take up the debate, and create an immigration policy that perhaps involves compromise.

Dana Taylor:

President Biden has put the issue squarely onto the shoulders of Vice President Kamala Harris to address the root causes of illegal immigration. What's happening there? Has she been able to make any progress on stemming the tide of illegal immigration?

Lauren Villagran:

Yeah, it was a difficult task laid out early in the Biden administration, and as you mentioned, placed within the purview of the vice president. That strategy has faltered in many ways. When you look at Central America, the Biden administration found that it didn't have many leaders to work with. You have a dictatorship in Nicaragua. You have a strong man government in Guatemala, which is poised to hold elections, a second round of presidential elections, and things could change there. But ultimately, the Biden administration ran up against obstacles including rampant corruption.

On the front, that was an attempt to sidestep governments, which is work with civil society and non-governmental organizations, faith-based organizations in country, I hear from those organizations in Guatemala that, really, the money has not come as fast as they were expecting. There's a lot of criticism out there. Now, as elections come up in Guatemala, are we going to see a change, perhaps a recommitment on the part of the administration to be able to work with a new government in Guatemala? I think that remains to be seen, but the strategy was never one that was going to impact immigration in the short or medium term. It really is a long-term strategy. The Biden administration has said that. I hear from State Department sources that they remain committed to that strategy, but I think we'll have to see how it continues to play out.

Dana Taylor:

Lauren, thank you so much for sharing your insights on this.

Lauren Villagran:

Thank you for having me.

Dana Taylor:

Thanks to Mark Sovel and Cherie Saunders for their production assistance. Our senior producer is Shannon Rae Green and our executive producer is Laura Beatty. Let us know what you think of this episode by sending a note to [email protected]. Thanks for listening. I'm Dana Taylor. Taylor Wilson will be back tomorrow with another episode of 5 Things.