On today's episode of the 5 Things podcast: Mike Pence is heading to the debate stage

USA TODAY Washington Bureau Chief Susan Page looks ahead to the first Republican primary presidential debate. Plus, USA TODAY Pentagon Correspondent Tom Vanden Brook explains why the Ukrainian counteroffensive is making little progress, how will the First Amendment defense play out in former President Donald Trump's Jan. 6 case?, Ohio voters reject a controversial measure, and the Supreme Court backs Biden administration efforts to regulate ghost guns.

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Hit play on the player above to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript below. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.

Taylor Wilson:

Good morning. I'm Taylor Wilson and this is 5 Things you need to know Wednesday, the 9th of August 2023. Today, an early look at the first Republican primary debate. Plus, whether the Trump legal team strategy could hold water, and why Ukraine's counteroffensive is having limited success.

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Former Vice President Mike Pence became the eighth and possibly last candidate to qualify for the first Republican primary debate on August 23rd. For more on his qualification and why the debate matters, I spoke with USA TODAY Washington Bureau Chief Susan Page. Thanks for making the time, Susan.

Susan Page:

It's always a pleasure to be with you.

Taylor Wilson:

So, former Vice President Mike Pence has qualified for the first Republican presidential primary debate. Susan, why did it take him so long to qualify?

Susan Page:

Well, it's really been an illustration of the political problems he has. He had more trouble than other candidates, other leading major candidates, in getting to the threshold that you needed to reach to get on the debate stage, which is 40,000 unique donors to your campaign. He did okay in the polling requirement, but he had some trouble raising the money. It is a big relief to his supporters that he has finally gotten over that line.

Taylor Wilson:

And who else can we expect on the stage?

Susan Page:

There are eight candidates who have qualified for the stage, but we don't know if one of them is going to show up. And that is Donald Trump, who says there's no good reason for him to show up because he has such a big lead. Why should he go in and let people at 1% and 2% and 3% in the polls get on stage and give him trouble. Some people think Trump will show up anyway, but whether he's there or not, the other candidates who'll be there, it is a big opportunity for someone like Vivek Ramaswamy, a candidate many Americans don't know yet, a big opportunity for him. A big opportunity for Ron DeSantis, the Florida governor who is trying to regain his footing in this race. And I'll mention one more. Chris Christie, the former New Jersey governor has become the chief critic, the leading critic of Donald Trump. So he is ready to be on stage as well.

Taylor Wilson:

And Susan, you wrote about some ways that this first GOP debate can boost or break campaigns. Why might this debate be so pivotal?

Susan Page:

Well, debates, you get a big audience, you get a chance to make a good impression and you get a chance to make a bad impression. And I remember in 2012, I was covering Rick Perry, three term Texas governor. When he jumped in the race, he was at the top of the polls. He went to a debate, he couldn't remember what three agencies of government he had vowed to dismantle if he were elected. And then he said, "Oops." And that was the moment that defined his campaign not in a good way. He didn't make it long after the New Hampshire primary.

Taylor Wilson:

And you mentioned Trump, Susan. If he doesn't show up, could the first debate help convince him to join the next one?

Susan Page:

It could, I think in two ways. One, if he's really taking a lot of fire on stage, he might want to be on stage the next time to respond to it. And a second reason he might be in the second debate, even if he skips the first, is maybe one of these other candidates will gain some traction from a standup performance in the first debate. That might lure Donald Trump back onto stage again as well.

Taylor Wilson:

All right, USA TODAY Washington Bureau Chief Susan Page with terrific insight for us as always. Thank you, Susan.

Susan Page:

Thank you.

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Taylor Wilson:

Former President Donald Trump's attorneys have repeatedly claimed that he's protected by the First Amendment in the 2020 election interference case. But legal experts say that such an argument may not hold up in court. Joan Meyer, a partner at the law firm Thompson Hine, told USA TODAY that Trump is charged with a scheme to defraud and other criminal violations that cannot be defended by arguing that his statements were just free speech. And David Super, a constitutional law professor at Georgetown University said that the First Amendment will likely not play a significant role in the trial for the case. He notes that the indictment is clear. It's not charging Trump because of his disagreement with election officials over the outcome of the 2020 election. Instead, it's charging him with a range of illegal acts, including submitting fraudulent electors certificates with others. Trump is expected to argue that he legitimately believed the election was stolen from him. Joan Meyer says that the question of intent to defraud will be central to the case. 

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A controversial Ohio measure has been rejected by voters. USA TODAY Network Ohio called the race around 8:00 Eastern last night, with the no vote leading 68% to 32%. The election was the result of a months-long fight that began last year, when Republicans introduced a plan to tighten the rules for constitutional amendments. Supporters argued they wanted to keep controversial policies out of the constitution and reserve it for the state's fundamental rights and values. Critics argued the ballot measure was a power grab that would restrict the rights of citizens to place an issue on the ballot. Ohioans appeared to vote largely with the opponents. Republicans made it clear they wanted to hold the election before November when Ohio residents will decide whether to enshrine reproductive rights in the Constitution. That turned yesterday's election into something of a proxy war on the abortion debate.

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Ukrainian forces have had limited success with a counteroffensive in the country's East in recent weeks. I spoke with USA TODAY Pentagon correspondent Tom Vanden Brook for the latest on the war and what happens next. Thanks for hopping on, Tom.

Tom Vanden Brook:

Good to be here, Taylor.

Taylor Wilson:

So starting here, why has such little progress been made in the Ukrainian counter offensive?

Tom Vanden Brook:

There are a couple of reasons. The main one that senior officials have told me about are these minefields that the Russians laid over the winter when the weather prohibited much in the way of fighting. There was fighting obviously, but not a lot of advances. The snow and the cold and mud prevented large scale maneuvering. So the Russians used that time to lay pretty elaborate defenses. And the one that's really slowing the Ukrainians down are these minefields.

Taylor Wilson:

And Tom, another winter is really right around the corner, just a few months off. How big of a factor will that be in this conflict and does it hurt one side more than the other?

Tom Vanden Brook:

Well, it's a big concern, Taylor. It's August already and it's going to be fall shortly in Ukraine and the rains are going to start falling there and the fields will get muddy. It'll be very difficult to maneuver armored vehicles. So there's a limited amount of time that the Ukrainians have to take advantage of this weather to mount an offensive. And they still have not breached many of these minefields. Some of them, they have, we're told, but time is not on their side at this point.

Taylor Wilson:

Have there been any recent successes for Ukraine in its fight back against Russia?

Tom Vanden Brook:

As I just mentioned, they have apparently breached some of these minefields. They have not been able to exploit that so that there would be a breakthrough yet. That's what the Pentagon is hoping for. They've also taken back some territory from the Russians, but I'm told they're talking about tenths of a mile at a time. These aren't big breakthroughs like they were last fall, that people may remember in northern Ukraine, where the Russians just basically turned tail and ran.

Taylor Wilson:

So Tom, do all these issues mean that Russia is doing exactly what it set out to do, to accomplish with this invasion? Or are they seeing serious problems as well?

Tom Vanden Brook:

Well, I think their initial thought was they were going to roll through Ukraine quickly, within days or weeks, and topple the Zelenskyy government and install their own puppet. That obviously didn't happen. They still have Crimea, which they seized in 2014, and much of the eastern portion of Ukraine that they essentially rolled into at the same time. They've paired back their expectations significantly, but they still occupy about 20% of Ukrainian territory.

Taylor Wilson:

And Tom, is all this a question of Ukraine needing more aid? Weapons? Or what's the solution to getting out of the muck?

Tom Vanden Brook:

Different schools of thought on that, Taylor. If you talk to some folks on Capitol Hill, like Senator Richard Blumenthal is on the Armed Services Committee, he thinks that we should be speeding more sophisticated weaponry, particularly F-16 fighters, which are more than on the table now. They're setting up training for Ukrainian pilots in European countries, but they're still months, at least, away from being fielded. And those would allow the Ukrainians to protect their forces on the ground from, for instance, attack helicopters that the Russians are using to keep them from bridging these minefields. So weapons like the F-16 longer range, a rocket fired artillery, that kind of thing. I should mention that American Abrams tanks will be there in the fall as well. Not one of these things is going to turn the tide. It's possible that they'll have more success if they get more sophisticated weapons, but the Russians still have a lot of armor and they still have a lot of people.

Taylor Wilson:

All right, Tom Vanden Brook, thanks as always.

Tom Vanden Brook:

Thanks, Taylor.

♦

Taylor Wilson:

A divided Supreme Court yesterday backed a Biden administration effort to regulate so-called ghost guns. The move temporarily allows the government to require manufacturers of the untraceable weapon kits to conduct background checks on customers and mark their products with serial numbers. Ghost gun kits typically allow people to purchase parts that can then be built into a weapon without the usual regulations that come with an assembled gun. President Joe Biden, last year, required companies selling the kits to stick to the same rules as other gun makers, including keeping records that help police trace the weapons. The High Court's decision pauses a lower court's ruling and allows the Biden administration to enforce the rules while an underlying case continues.

And before we go, today is National Book Lovers Day. Grab your favorite paperback or hard cover and make some time to read today, if you get the chance.

Thanks for listening to 5 Things. If you like the show, please subscribe and leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And if you have any comments, you can reach us at [email protected]. I'm back tomorrow with more of 5 Things from USA TODAY.