The Excerpt podcast: States can't figure out how to execute inmates

On today's episode of The Excerpt podcast: An Alabama inmate is scheduled to be the first in the nation put to death by nitrogen gas. It's the latest attempt for states that can't seem to figure out how to execute inmates. The Ohio Senate voted to override the governor's veto of a bill dealing with the rights of transgender children. This means the state will restrict medical care for transgender minors and block transgender girls from female sports. The national debt is at a record high, but no one can seem to agree on what that means. Not even economists. Think you'll work past 70? Think again. Why most Americans retire earlier. And, you can flush with the lid open or closed. Experts say it doesn't matter. Germs spread, either way.

Hit play on the player below to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript beneath it. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.

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Taylor Wilson:

Good morning. I'm Taylor Wilson and today is Thursday, January 25th, 2024. This is The Excerpt. Today, states are struggling to figure out how to execute inmates. Plus, Ohio has restricted healthcare for transgender kids. And we check in with the national debt.

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The State of Alabama tried to execute Kenneth Eugene Smith, but failed. His botched execution is one of a series around the country revealing major flaws and forcing states to reconsider how they execute inmates. I spoke with USA TODAY Breaking News Reporter Jeanine Santucci to learn more. Jeanine, thanks for hopping on The Excerpt today.

Jeanine Santucci:

No problem. Thank you for having me.

Taylor Wilson:

So Jeanine, let's start here. Can you tell us about Kenneth Smith and what happened with his previous failed lethal injection?

Jeanine Santucci:

He was one of two men convicted and sentenced to death for a murder for hire plot against a preacher's wife in 1988. His case is notable because it's not the first time that they have attempted to execute him in Alabama. In November 2022, lethal injection was tried and failed after executioners couldn't find a good vein. He was strapped to a table for hours before it was eventually called off. And he's described the experience as traumatizing.

Taylor Wilson:

And he's chosen nitrogen hypoxia for his next execution attempt. Jeanine, what is this and why is it controversial?

Jeanine Santucci:

Nitrogen hypoxia uses nitrogen gas, which is part of the air that we breathe all the time anyway, but this method causes the prisoner to breathe in only nitrogen gas, which would then deprive them of oxygen and lead to death. So the State of Alabama is arguing that it's humane because ideally what happens is it should cause Kenneth Smith to become unconscious immediately. But many people are worried about what could go wrong and that worry makes sense because this is the first time that nitrogen hypoxia is being used to execute anyone in the US, and experts believe, in the world.

There's not very much information about Alabama's protocol about how they're going to do this. What we do know is that they plan to use a respirator style mask to deliver the nitrogen. Now, there are concerns that there could be leaks because he may move around and if there are leaks, that could prolong the experience. There are concerns that he could vomit and choke to death, which would be more excruciating. And there are also concerns about the safety of the people around him. His spiritual advisor is supposed to be right next to him, but if there are leaks, there are concerns about his safety as well. I spoke to Elizabeth Armstrong, who's a bioethics professor at Colorado Christian University, and she brought up the ethics involved in this process as sort of experimenting on a human being, a process that hasn't been done before.

Taylor Wilson:

And Jeanine, what are the other execution methods that the US officially uses and how is it decided really, which form to use?

Jeanine Santucci:

Historically, the US has used six methods dating back to colonial times, hanging, firing squad, lethal gas, electrocution, lethal injection, and now nitrogen hypoxia being the sixth. Lethal injection is the primary method on the books in the 27 states that still have the death penalty, and it has been the primary method since the 1970s when it was introduced and became quickly adopted. In some states, other methods can be used if lethal injection isn't available or if there are extraordinary circumstances, and this is one of those.

Taylor Wilson:

Yeah, so we talked about one of those with this horrible failed lethal injection attempt for Kenneth Smith. How often are executions botched nationwide and what are the ethical concerns around these incidents?

Jeanine Santucci:

Botches have become more common in recent years. Between 1890 and 2010, the Death Penalty Information Center says there was an estimated 3% of executions that were botched. Now there are a few more gruesome cases that come to light. For example, with electrocution, there are cases of people's flesh and hair being caught on fire. With lethal gas, the process can take a long time, over 15 minutes, for the person to die. So you can imagine the excruciating experience there.

Taylor Wilson:

All right. Jeanine Santucci, great insight on a challenging topic. Thanks so much.

Jeanine Santucci:

Thank you.

Taylor Wilson:

The Supreme Court yesterday declined to halt Smith's execution.

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The Ohio Senate voted yesterday to override Governor Mike DeWine's veto of legislation that restricts medical care for transgender minors and blocks transgender girls from female sports. The bill prohibits doctors from prescribing hormones, puberty blockers, or gender reassignment surgery before patients turn 18 and requires mental health providers to get parental permission to diagnose and treat gender dysphoria. It also bans transgender girls and women from playing on female sports teams in high school and college.

Governor DeWine in his veto of the legislation last month argued that decisions about gender transition care should be left to families and their medical providers. Its fellow Republicans in the state, though, disagreed and House Bill 68 is now set to become law in less than 90 days. Opponents of the bill have said they will explore litigation, something that's played out in other states with bans on youth gender transition care. A federal judge struck down a law in Arkansas that mirrors Ohio's new policy, but the state is appealing the decision.

Ohio's governor meanwhile is pursuing other policies to address the issue. He signed an executive order banning Ohio hospitals and surgical facilities from performing gender transition surgery on minors. His administration also proposed rules to collect data on transgender medical care and regulate the treatment of children and adults with gender dysphoria. You can read more with a link in today's show notes.

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The US government's national debt has reached a new record. I spoke with USA Today money reporter Bailey Schulz about how big of a deal this is. Bailey, thanks for making the time.

Bailey Schulz:

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Taylor Wilson:

So Bailey, just how high has the country's national debt gotten?

Bailey Schulz:

So the US just recently passed 34 trillion in national debt, which is a new record.

Taylor Wilson:

And can you help us better understand what the national debt is exactly? This word gets thrown around a lot and I think a lot of folks don't fully grasp what it is. And also just how much debt can the US take on?

Bailey Schulz:

National debt is the total amount of money that the US owes its creditors. And a lot of different entities are considered creditors, but that includes individual investors, banks, even other parts of the federal governments. And so that number keeps growing in part because the US has got into a habit of running on deficit, which means that in a given year it spends more than it takes in. As for how much debt is too much, that's something that a lot of economists and experts don't agree on. So great question. Don't have an easy answer for you. But one piece of research I found from the Penn Wharton Budget Model estimates that the US debt held by the public cannot exceed roughly 200% of the GDP, and currently today we're at about 100%.

Taylor Wilson:

All right, interesting stuff. So what impact does the national debt have on, say, inflation and interest rates?

Bailey Schulz:

Yeah, so that's another point that economists don't agree on, but some are worried that the national debt could lead to higher inflation. Thoughts around that are that more debt through things like cutting taxes or more government spending, that would put more money in consumers pockets, that would prompt consumers to spend more money, which in turn would lead to higher inflation rates. Another concern some economists have is that levels could hike the cost of borrowing, which could impact things like mortgage rates.

Taylor Wilson:

Bailey, right now, how concerned are Americans about the rising debt and how concerned should they be?

Bailey Schulz:

Yeah, I think we're seeing that this is something a lot of Americans are thinking about and are concerned about. As for how worrisome the debt levels today are, that's another thing that we see a lot of economists disagree on. One told me that this new benchmark, us passing this $34 trillion, though, this does not mean that the sky is falling by any means. As far as looking long-term on what this debt means, we are seeing that there are economists and lawmakers who are definitely concerned about this debt and what it could mean for the economy, while others say these concerns are a bit overblown and the debt might just have to be the price we pay as a country to kind of keep money flowing to essential programs.

Taylor Wilson:

So we know the debt keeps going up. What's next for this conversation around the national debt going forward?

Bailey Schulz:

The impact of the debt itself is definitely up for debate, but Americans could definitely start seeing ramifications as and when and if we see lawmakers start to take steps to address this national debt. And that could be through things like raising taxes, cutting spending to certain programs, or some sort of combination of both.

Taylor Wilson:

Bailey Schulz, I always learn a lot when you're here on the show. Thanks so much.

Bailey Schulz:

Thanks for having me.

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Taylor Wilson:

We're living healthier, longer lives, and there's a slew of remote work available that can be done from the comfort of your own home. Still, Americans aren't necessarily working longer. As it turns out, the average American retires not at age 70 or 65, but at 62. That number comes from two annual surveys of working and retired Americans, one from the Employee Benefit Research Institute and another from the Transamerica Center for Retirement Studies. And retiring at 62 is different from what we expect. According to the Transamerica study, the average over-50 worker expects to retire at 67 and two-thirds of older employees plan to retire after 65 or not at all.

The reality is we don't always get to retire when we want. Many people imagine easing out of employment on their own terms, but actual retirement tends to arrive abruptly and unexpectedly, triggered by declining health or corporate downsizing. In the Transamerica survey, 56% of retirees said they retired sooner than they had planned. The takeaways, as personal finance reporter Daniel de Visé writes, one, it's never too early to start planning for retirement. Two, when you sit down to write a retirement plan, err on the conservative side. And three, don't get too caught up in the numbers.

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Do you flush with the lid open or closed? When it comes to germs, it might not matter. In a study out today in the American Journal of Infection Control, researchers concluded that microscopic viral particles spread to the floor and nearby restroom surfaces when a person flushes the toilet, regardless of whether the lid is up or down. The study found that the only meaningful way to reduce the spread of viral pathogens is to disinfect the toilet, toilet water, and nearby surfaces. Still, other researchers have found there's little doubt that particles can be forcefully ejected from a toilet bowl after a flush.

Matthew Nonnenmann, a University of Nebraska public health professor, conducted a study that found contaminants can linger in a restroom 30 minutes after flushing. Whether or not you close the toilet lid, experts are clear that cleaning is key. Microbiologist Charles Gerba, whose team conducted the latest study, recommends disinfecting high-touch bathroom surfaces twice a day.

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Be sure to stay tuned to The Excerpt later today when my colleague Dana Taylor will be joined by Indigenous affairs reporter Debra Krol to discuss the ongoing battle over indigenous water rights. You can find the episode right here on this feed after 4 PM Eastern Time. And thanks for listening to The Excerpt. You can get the podcast wherever you get your pods, and if you're on a smart speaker, just ask for The Excerpt. I'm Taylor Wilson, back tomorrow with more of The Excerpt from USA TODAY.